A comment about reservations!
There are 2 reasons behind visiting a blog, The pleasure in reading it and enjoying it and then finding contentious issues or ways of expressing things and placing comments there, about that issue. Its not a practice of “simply being critical” about the issue. It is opposong the view point that the writer has put up and clearly placing your view points there. I stumbled upon this blog, when i was visiting my friends blog. The content of this particluar blog never pleased me. Here you go.
I agree reservation is a very complex issue and should not be leased out for the govenment at helm to decide the increase and decrease of it. There should be an independent body over looking this issue But can never write off reservations quoting that it creates a rift in the society based on castes. Here is a comment i posted in the Savekerala.Blogspot.com
Very Looney Post! The upper middle class mediocrity always spews incoherent words and that shows in almost all the comments here. Making reservations in the cricket field and things so forth. Those kind of mediocrity is indispensable in blog-dom because hardly any blogs or comments will be written by a dalit or he would have been tortured his whole existence on this planet, that it is the most disgusting thing ever to reveal- he is a Dalit.
Eons of terrible sufferings has almost waxed their mouth to shout out their needs. If they do we have our culture-vultures, who predominantly belong to this middle class and OBC’s who have the right to chop of their arms and squeeze their eyes even stone them to death.
Claims will be; not all these occur in our “shining India”. Its just coz, the so-called fourth estate or media comprehensively falters at capturing the essence of Indian life. They have the sensex sky rocketing and wardrobe malfunction!
Its has been only 50 years of “reservations”. Does it count for 1000’s of years oppression? If some one is loosing out his precious seat due to reservation, just keep in mind, he has not paid his due for all those oppression and repression, which is continuing.
I dint see all these Brouhaha when a dalit was stoned in haryana? I pity these eye-glistened neo-rich in India. Phew!!
Corporate Social Negligence! 
If you don’t apreciate the views of MC & team, why leave a link there to your blog? Is it a trick to piggyback their huge readership? Just like how I reached here? I must say, it works!!!
Now in which century are you living? I agree, lower castes were opressed, but that was way back. Now they live in better conditions and if anyone is opressed, it is the alleged upper castes. They are living under constant threat of taking away their livelyhood by this stupidity called reservation. by Livelyhood I mean jobs.
Now tell me, how many of OBC/SC/ST docs/Engs are there? The ratio of reservations and the final figure just doesn’t add up. Why? Undeserved students, just in the name of caste, got into these coveted institutions and wasted the goverment’s, taxpayers, money.
Where else you can see this kinda stupid caste system and vote-bank politics? This is infact the bane of our country. And you want to deepen the misery?
What about merit? If you have to choose a doctor who got his degree by his merit and another who got there by reservation, to do a bypass on you, whom would you choose? I am sure what the answer is.
So let’s face it. Upto high school level or may be upto +2, reservations are OK. but don’t water down the quality of higher studies. Let merit prevail.!!!
Hey shinu,
is this as “clash” said come kind of “christain conspiracy??? Looks like all the mathais and mammachans and johnychaayans have come to war with the socio-political-economic struggles that the lower castes (!) have gone through in the ages?
To quote you:
“Now in which century are you living? I agree, lower castes were opressed, but that was way back. Now they live in better conditions and if anyone is opressed, it is the alleged upper castes.”
OK! I hear the “voice” of the oppressed!
But…
“Now tell me, how many of OBC/SC/ST docs/Engs are there? The ratio of reservations and the final figure just doesn’t add up. Why? Undeserved students, just in the name of caste, got into these coveted institutions and wasted the goverment’s, taxpayers, money.”
Hey, you just said something contradicting? Of course, the blood will boil. The roots that christainity binds in Kerala either comes from the “privileged act” of conversion or from the “unprivileged sin” of serving the British!
Of course, merit will prevail…why crib what the government gives the so called underprivileged? why bother having backlogs when you get into a good engg college…?
And now, count on my credentials…I got into the merit list all my way through although I belong to the OBC? Wanna comment, mathais?
@ Shinu: Sorry, I never extrapolate my thoughts and views to sell them. It is just for me and a closely-knit circle, which I share it with. Though it will be unbelievable for you, it was mistake by which I left a link over there.
Its not an intended one, and I will be very lucky if the bunch of Looney constricted mindset souls who visit that blog never drops in my blog, Including you. However, I will visit that blog always and leave comments over there, as the space is open for the public. It’s not necessary that I should share their view points to comment there.
With all my might i will fight against those who prophesize the bunch of people who held with CIA to topple the first democratically elected communist government in kerala.
And things being a Christian conspiracy,yes I always hold that view point!!
@dhanya: Hmmmm.. What Vigour!
happens dude, the northy wind is swooshing me in every possible way, leftwards!
hiyaaho!
So Dhanya, you believe living in better consitions meaning becoming a doctor/Engineer. There are no other proffessions that can enable one to live better huh?.
The conspiracy theory explains your narrow-mindset. You believe that only christians are against this stupidity called reservations right? Did you heard what Mohd Rela, the renowned liver surgeon from London said yesterday? He was a beneficiary of reservation but he totally against it. His was a well-off business family, droped to school in a car, had the best of education and he enjoyed reservation because he belongs to a BC in islam.
And the so-called mathais and and johnychayans are not alone in this fight for justice. The Nairs and Pillais, The menons and Nampoothiris, the Anwars and Mohds are all fighting together. You know why? because our system is so stooped, that the politicians will go to any end to appease the so-called BCs. The shamelessness with which this BCs enjoy the fruits are appalling me. If they have any guts or a bone called spine, they too should stand against this discrimination, criminal wastage of public money.
You guys put a communal tag to every thing that doesn’t please your eyes. I don’t blame you. Given the circumstances in which you were brought up and brain washed, it is no wonder.
@ Clash;
It is little difficult to believe that the link was an accident. Anyway it had the desired effect. I too get an opportunity to view this blog and got a chance to see the other side. But unfortunately, the “other” side see things through a “red” film.
Best of luck dude!
@ Shinu: “The shamelessness with which this BCs enjoy the fruits are appalling me. If they have any guts or a bone called spine, they too should stand against this discrimination, criminal wastage of public money”- I think you were born outside, or was in a nutshell in India. Spine… is that what you are talking about? First you should allow them to have a spine… then should be inquiring abt that spine. When people like you are around that’s never possible…Where the hell did ya come from in search of a BC’s Spine?
Seeing Everything through a red film… yeah… u were taught, u will become a rebel against the faith you hold, if u see through a red film, or u were at the helm of controlling a big mass of these BC’s who worked for you, so that u never could think of watching through a red film. Naturally you never had the guts to think in the other way or “the way u call it, red film”. You had all the opportunities to have a spine. Nevertheless, you still lack it, coz you just followed what you were taught . Happens… Get a spine and come back!
Amen!
First the docs and enggs…I am a journalist, so thats been countered!
“The Nairs and Pillais, The menons and Nampoothiris, the Anwars and Mohds are all fighting together.”
OK! Agreed!
“You guys put a communal tag to every thing that doesn’t please your eyes. I don’t blame you. Given the circumstances in which you were brought up and brain washed, it is no wonder.”
NO Wonder Shinu!!!
Hey Dude! Cool it! I thought it’s going to be an intellectual debate between us. Now it has become a personal insulting slug match! I never said YOU don’t have a spine!!
Why u are resorting to personal scathing? Shouldn’t it be a healthy, sometimes inflammatory, but never personal, debate?
If you are offended by my remarks, I am sorry, I wouldn’t post any comments here.
Sorry, I didn’t know that this blog is meant only for aye aye men. Not for Nay men.
Dhanya,
If you were trying to be sarcastic, it didn’t work 🙂
No wonder? U mean you have no objection to my rather inflammatory remarks 😐 Lol.
One suggestion to you Dhanya, Since you are a journalist, you shouldn’t be biased, shouldn’t be prejudiced. Try to aproach the subject with a clean slate. I am not saying reservatons are not required. My objection is only to this latest proposal, that is 49.5% for a group that comprises only 32% of the population!!! And that is, in my opinion, is watering down the spirit of our constitution. And the quality of higher education.
It was not a personal attack, but a situational attack towards a person suffering from delusion! Its all up to you decide to come here or not….
offended by your remarks: Nope.. not at all.. and this is my way of tackling things.. in the hardest.. way.. if u can take it.. u can be here.. if not.. its up to you!
Take a chill pill!!
An appendage:
Its not coz u told me to have a spine, that i worte back, you should be having a spine. Its all about “seeing through the red film”.Like the way you say : “You guys put a communal tag to every thing that doesn’t please your eyes. I don’t blame you. Given the circumstances in which you were brought up and brain washed, it is no wonder”..
I was telling you, u lack the spine for thinking differently :)-
reservation is a complex issue.. but i feel that the so called ‘creamy layer’ of the OBC/SC/ST should not be given reservations.
and it should be given up to graduation level
Hi Shinu,
I am not writing here, or commenting here as a journalist! I told you my profession only becoz u asked me whether I believe there is only a choice b/w docs and enggs.
You got the fact right!
Would be highly appreciated if you could re-read the comments that you write and the comments that are written for you!
And about being biased…I am not writing for a newspaper, nor reporting for a channel IN THIS SPACE. I am just expressing my individual opinions about the facts I think is right. Whoever said, journalists can’t be humanistically charged?
And One More Thing Shinu,
Forgot to mention…I haven’t actually said anything. I have put in your contradicting comments together to just let you know that you are not sure about what exactly you are talking. Anyways, it is the mallu vigour, to talk and talk, talk about how the others talk, not to think and just talk, talk about everything that goes beyond the thoughtlines of their hairs, talk and still talk!
and the intellectual discussions that you were challenging clash for, i don’t understand how perceptions shape in someone who binds himself with “my heart will go on” and bestsellers of american trashcan.
read Sainath, Roy and then come back to have an intellectual discussion or else cut the crap of pseudo intellectualism!
and thats straight on the face personal!
When i read all the comments above i felt i must respond. But I need to take you to malaysia. sorry for the detour
I am a Malaysian indian, In Malaysia, I am a minority, and will never get a scholorship, let alone admission to the universities in Malaysia, unless i convert to islam. we have something called NEP, new economic policies ,meant for the muslim malays, where by everything is reserved for them. Yet my parents educated all of us and now i am in Canada to make sure my children will have a good education. No I am not trying to say that I am great/smart or whatever. I am trying to show you that, you can survive without any reservation. All you need is guts.. it is ludicrous to say that able bodied people still need crutches because their ancestors were down trodden at one time in history.. Wake up guys.. this is the 21st century..
FYI, Dhanya, I read “american trashcan” bestsellers as well as Roy’s Books. I don’t see any necessity to convince the others what I read or what not. And it is not necessary to “Like” ROy & other higher being’s work to get some intellect.
You are fool is you think you are the only intellectual around here. A good debate about reservation turned out to be a collective OBC vs UC slugfest. Hense I request the author of this site to remove my comments.
I don’t relish talking to fools who never respect the opposition.
Good bye morons!!
Shinu,
The mallu crassness is well appreciated. And I never said I was an intellectual! Did I? When you lose out of words and when you feel defeated! And this is perfectly justifiable!
How come you missed out Sainath? Yes, of course, you would have read ‘Small things’, any mathai would have read it, that is no news!
And the moron part, when the mad man calls the world mad, nobody really cares a damn about his words!
Keep off from things which you cannot handle and wisdom doesn’t come with age! (i didn’t say i am wise!)
Dear immigrant in Canada,
Hats off to your guts! It is wonderfully appreciated! But I have a doubt, your dad had the money to send you to school, even though there was no reservation. But what happens to a lot of others who do not have the money to send their children to school? For them, only reservation is the means of finding a place in the educational system, then what happens? Who gives them education?
@ immigrant :Kudos to all your deeds! When we talk about reservations we talk about India and the situations prevalent in India. Personal choices, will take you through hardhsips,like yours and we cant crib about it or rather making it a platform to judge other intricate issues, is not correct. Malaysia, essentially is a Muslim country and all Muslim countries except may be one or two on earth have a parochial way of executing things, which always favor their religion. Where as India as a multi ethnic nation, has made a constitution which tries to offer the maximum parity to its citizens. That is why when our constitution was conceived, they found an urgency to help the down trodden or the oppressed classes in India. It was not a Looney decision at that point of time, for the people who conceived it coz they never had to woo any of the voters’ coz; they were unanimously the choice of India as a whole. Time flew by, and things have changed, we have propelled to 21st century, but things have not much changed in the case of this oppressed class, May be because they never were willing to change or were never ready to take risk. It is not because of anything, it is because of a collective conscious that forces a lower caste to abide his way rather than popping out of it.
Now when it comes to Kerala, as every one know we went through many socio cultural upheavals, which gathered a momentum in the society to recognize the so-called lower castes and to a bigger extent, it has won. Still, I have noticed, people making notes like “he/she might be an SC/ST”, when you find a dark person (I have seen it with my eyes!). If it is the maturity and development that this 21st century has offered, it is utterly despicable. When you move out of kerala, the situation is even worse. Everybody knows that, and need not explain. “All you need is guts… it is ludicrous to say that able bodied people still need crutches because their ancestors were down trodden at one time in history”. You really think so. All were a part of history? That’s exactly the problem of people like you and shinu, you keep your eyes closed towards what is happening now. All that is in front of you is the shopping malls and swooshing cars! Now offering your case as an example also doesn’t go well here.It was your family choice to forgo the rights you could have enjoyed in your country and leave it for a better living. The hardships you faced is a part and parcel of it.
@ Shinu : Ha ha, What happened dude.. U lost all your wits in the last comment? All those previous comments were well woven with intricate expressions and jargons. Suddenly I see you fumbling. You don’t need to, it’s not an exam, just a blog. I don’t want to delete all those comments you have written over here. I want all of them coming over here to see them and get intellectually charged with those high profile words. I actually adored these words of you “Now in which century are you living? I agree, lower castes were opressed, but that was way back”. Again, you also do not have the capability of seeing the reality. Now if you cant do that, there is no point in talking to you, and if you want to call me a moron coz I see that, What a sad f*** you turn out to be?
@clash: I feel oppressed! 😀
But man, that was some comment! The commie red blood is boiling! 🙂
And I Still feel Oppressed!
@clash: I feel oppressed! 😀
But man, that was some comment! The commie red blood is boiling! 🙂
And I Still feel Oppressed!
Well let me tell you abt money: I earned a good salaray as a doctor in Malaysia, now live hand to mouth and I still struggle to educate my kids.. so what prevents you from reaching your goals.. oh please don’t tell me, my dad had money.. I sold salwars in the last three years at med school to finance my fees and buy books..
You need reservation only if you don’t know a thing about standing up on your own two legs, then you need crutches
“It was your family choice to forgo the rights you could have enjoyed in your country and leave it for a better living. The hardships you faced is a part and parcel of it”.. .. very true, unlike those who are begging for reservation, the choices my parents made, were indeed a better one…that made me a stronger person, made me understand the world doesn’t owe me a living, it is up to me to make it..not the government, not the politicians and their policies..just me.. and i did it..without any reservation, on my merit.
unlike those who are begging for reservation: NO body begs for it, its a privilege offered! May be an in depth study is required, for you.
Immigrant,
There is no point in arguing with somebody who is already convinced that the whole anti-reservation protests are a christian-conspiracy and “Mathais and Johnychayans” are behind it. Whatever reasoning you do, they will tear you apart with their half-baked theories. If nothing is working, they start to abuse you. I have borne the brubt of their fury and decided not to reply.
It is worthless to reason with a dog, when he has spotted a bone. Until he gets his greedy hands on it, he wouldn’t listen and may cause harm.
I thought you signed off from this place Mr.Shinu.. what made you come back? I never told its a christian conspiracy,I wrote it in save kerala in another context, Dont muddle up the whole issue.
For a bone, a dog and a dog fights, i haven heard of man fighting with a dog for the bone.. so to square it up.. you also turn out to be one phantasmagoric Doggy! Cheers!!
its a privilege offered….. for what? That the sc/st are different from me? So you are saying the privilleges offered because, someone in the last century practiced caste based discrimination?? oh please.. you still want to carry the begging bowl when you have the same IQ as the rest? Ever thought of using the brain, instead of a begging bowl?
Ofcourse there comes a topic about not having enough money.. That bothers me the most. I self financed my way through my master’s degree in England, doing three different jobs after my classes. I delivered parcels,I worked as a dish washer and did babysitting..I am a medical doctor. I didn’t go to malaysian govt to beg for scholorship/financial aid..
Gandhi once said, hands that hold a pen don’t want to hold a hoe..That is the problem of not having money for education. because most want to catch the fish without getting the hands wet.
Elenor Roosevelt once said, no one can make you inferior without your consent… and when you ask for reservation based on caste/creed or whatever..you are just giving that consent.
I had this nice dream yesterday…
The Kandans, Cherumans, Theyees and Chiruthas getting on a plane to Malaysia or England or Canada purely on guts.
Their children working part time in KFCs and Pizza shops rather than cashew and coir factories to make a living and meet their education.
That was wonderful, truely admirable, and so today I started towards to make it a reality.
But there are some problems. They don’t have a passport. They don’t even talk Malayalam, forget about English. They don’t have money for the tickets. The work they do are not done in those countries. And immigration officers don’t allow them to fly unless they show financial help or educational qualifications or job offers.
I told this to immigrants in Canada and they said that they don’t know them. That such people don’t exist. And if they exist, to live on their guts. I told them so and they went back to their huts. Begging was prohibited. Even applying for their rights was treated as begging.
Today I had this nice dream.
The immigrants in Canada and their children getting on a plane to France to attend a seminar on poverty in Kerala homes and the modern trends in begging.
Canadian government is seeking aspiring applicants to become their citizens. Those who think it is not begging can apply. Hence went Kandans, Cherumans, Theyees, and Chiruthas to apply for a passport.
unfortunately, there are those who think only the rich can learn english ,,they take their failure not as a personal fault, but as the fault of other’s..
Sorry to break your bubble there… I didn’t speak a word of english till I was 17.. I spoke malay till 10, then malayalam till 17 and was in the medical college at the age of 17, with just the basic pre degree english..
I forgot to mention, I didn’t pass the english entrance exam at the school and studied in malayalam medium!!
The problems with all those who say they will suffer without reservation is ..because they have koopamandooka budhi.. Like the frog in the well who thinks the world is the well.. these people stay in the same situation as their ancestors, still complaining and still think and expect that the world owes them a life and income… they forgot to look at their own leg..
Instead of trying to attack me personally, where you get nothing, argue if you have any valid points..
Rather than talking about yourself, write about what you know about the present state of Kerala. If you don’t have a first hand information, which is highly likely as per your comments, there is no point in this talk. If your knowledge comes from a month of vacation or through media, I must say that that is far from the reality.
reality is nothing but an illusion!!!..
Fact is there are cowards who wants akshaya pathram.. and then say that..it is pay back time or privillege..
We both know, there shouldn’t be anything that can stop you, if you have the brain and guts.. when you lack that..then you need the begging bowl!
What would be your next excuse?.. we hv so far covered, money, religion, rich father, english language, my physical presence in Kerala..anything else?
I will come and go as I please as this is open to public. If you want to prohibit me from attending this, or at least following What Immgrant has to say (I don’t care what the other bird brains has to say), u make this closed blog.
Immigrant, well said. They will try every trick in their armoury to stall you from making a strong point. What you said about English is really true.
I didn’t speak a word of english till I was 20. And knowing english is not the only scale to measure intellect.
Deep in their subconsious mind, they are still slaves, slaves to fair skin, slaves to their own misgivings about what happened in the past. They don’t want to move forward and use their brains. So far, they got everything in platter via reservations.
Today Sonia Gandhi intervened in this quota debate and ordered to go slow and raise the number of seats for general category. It is at least a partial victory for common sense.
Why they are adamant about reservations in the elite institutes? I am all for reservations upto high school level. There onwards who are brilliant in studies can be supported if they can’t pursue higher studies due to financial backwardness.
That’s the only solution to this boiling issue.
@Clash,
Thanks for the complement. You are very good at twisting words and making it suits your views. I never abuse my fellow bloggers except once or twice. Unfortunately that happened in this forum.
Learn to respect the other side too. Or may be if you have that much wisdom, you would never have started this argument. Genes shows!!
@clash, sorry forgot to mention why I thanked you. I consider calling me a dog is far better than uttering my name in the same breath as your name. Thanks for not calling me clash!!
@:Anony: Great!
@ Immigrant: The Kandans, Cherumans, Theyees and Chiruthas,They are the only concern over here and not any ezhava or thiyya who comes under OBC. The problem with you is that you dont know what is happening.. may be these 2 links can help you.
http://www.dalitstan.org/journal/genocide/dalits/dalits.html
Still you call Reality is an illusion? And when u went on financing your education, was it also an illusion?
http://www.ambedkar.org/crime.htm
@Shinu: Cheers Buddy! carry on…
Hi Anony,
I share the dream! And btw, I don’t see a point arguing with these people! I don’t understand why they are so closed minded about this whole issue.
They quote all possible people in the world! But why isn’t it that they don’t understand the plight of the tribes in the western ghats? the suffering of the women in these tribes, the misery of the people from the mountains of the north east…It is just irritating and confusing.
The fact remains that it is easy to see things from a common perspective, where maybe the epitome of sacrifice, Madam Gandhi also rests her brain. But it is very difficult to think from a perspective when the thought flow has to come from another man’s perspective, and these people who challenge for “guts” and “intellect” simply don’t have it! They have rosy stories of how they were brought up, how they struggled, how they didn’t know english, how they went to school…they just don’t know that poverty brings a lot of other things with it, just because they are not poor!
Thanks for commenting, thanks for sharing the dream!
shinu and immigrant,
i think you can consider the discussion closed, as closed as your dead brains!
Immigrant:
You are a bright, gutsy and brainy lady who have had great exposure to the world, brought up in Malaysia, studied in England, immigrated to Canada, overcame stuggles to end up in the current position which is “Jobless in Canada” (refer your own profile). No wonder why you find reality as illusion.
I had been to Canada sometime back and found similar illusionists; jobless immigrants, engineers running SubWays, MBAs driving taxis. Still we can’t agree with the Kandans, Theyees, Cherumans and Chiruthas who are deprived of even a smile from the merited doctors; not to speak about other illusions.
Dhanya:
Think about these illusionists in the children’s ward of yours. You would not be alive now, if that was the case. If only the immigrant could visit the medical college hospitals in Kerala; forget their homes or hearts or whatever.
Shinu:
At least you believe in reality up to highschool level. Better than immigrant. Btw, Illusion is when somebody talks about English where the focus was on something else. Read my comments again and see whether you two can make out what I really intended. You have come up well with your lessons of the language. Good vocabulary.
Clash:
I clearly understand why the very first communist government came to power in Kerala. I also realize why that got toppled. And there is no surprise why it came to power this year too. When illusionists reject realities, the power of people will prevail.
To all:
I won’t come back (and that’s my WORD) for this discussion because I don’t see an end to this. Hope to meet you elsewhere. I will read your comments here and I am sure you would be pleased to hear that.
when I went to england and financed my own education..illusion is that someone would give me a scholorship.. reality is that it won’t happen and i need to find my own way, because nobody owes me a living..
to anon.. yep I am jobless in Canada.. that is again trying a personal attack..but you are missing the point.. I gave up a well paid job in Malaysia and came here, so my kids would have a better education..I could have stayed back in Malaysia with my begging bowl or take a chance…. the issue here is begging for reservation..
To Dhanya: I read that you are aspiring journalist.. personal attacks would be in the realm of crap journalism..didn’t you learn that in school?
Anon: you mentioned you have been here and noticed that engineers driving subway trains…. did you see them asking for reservation for their kids at the uni? Did you see them asking for reservation at the workplace? So people can survive, even when they drive trains..but in india..some how the SC/ST can’t??..so the privilleges they expect are the excuses for their inability right? whatesle would you call their apathy?
immigrant…
whats wrong with you lady? you are jobless in canada. ok…becoz u wanted to give good edu to ur kids! (pity them!!) anyways…doesn’t make a point!
and i learnt it in my life!
when people like you scorn reality as illusions, i retort back in the same level as theirs…thats the power of the self, that happens only when you and your conscience is in sync, not double-minded about realities and illusions!
anony,
i am sorry to say this, but i didn’t understand what you told me. if you really don’t mind, consider it my handicap to understand, kindly explain what u meant!
Dhanya:You pity my kids..for what?
You are so childish.. apart from personal attack..you haven’t made a single point as to why you deserve the begging bowl..you are just emotional..
You got to read more and grow up and learn to argue, without getting emotional..I wouldn’t fall for your personal attack..my grandmother used to say “theeyil kurutahthu veyilathu vadathilla” ..so if you have reasonable arguments..put it forward.
Now, I think I need to be here in between all of you. First, thanks for all those comments here. It is turning out to be an indefinite strife between those who support reservations and who do not. Of course, there will be two sides for a coin and we all belong to those different polarities. So, the difference in opinions also.
@: Immigrant: People tend to relate them to the issues around. You started the debate stating all those hardships you went through coz you were in Malaysia and so-forth. And seem to proud about what you did. Great!! However, when it comes to a wider issue like reservations, it shows your immaturity and ignorance about the issue, calling reservation the begging bowl and things like that. Millions in India are tortured and harassed in the name of their caste. As u might have left so early from India to an alien country to make your living, you will not get the crux of it, or even if you get it, u will simply ignore it and try to express the whole issue in a circumlocutory way.
When I vie for reservations, I have always thought about the ground reality and the people in the lower strata, I have never coined my opinions based on, how it will be affecting my ways and my means. Its is not because I aspire for a career in politics and get all those votes and become another pineapple headed fat minister. It is of a concerned effort to view things in a different angle, rather being with a mass of the youth who propel their emotions seeing some kind of a movie (RDB). Some of us have separate glasses to drink water from. Aluminum/mud for the lower class and steel or chinaware for the upper class. May be u might not be knowing all these rather you do not want to know. For you all has been struggle to make your life move ahead in a good manner and then boast about all those hardships you went through in doing so. It is a narcissist way of believing. You are just another kid of this materialistic world, who thinks and relates your hardships with the millions on earth. Your comments sound like, when I was doing my graduates, I had days when I never had any food. Why don’t the people in Africa also do the same?
According to me, you don’t have the rights to comment about this issue coz u can never relate with the millions in our home land who struggle, All you can do is, My illusion was I will be getting a scholarship. I am able to raise my kids well. I threw away my good job for the future of my kids. I and I and more I, then where are others? I have some good readers who have a big heart to accommodate “I and others” together. Please don’t spoil them too with these too much of “I’s”.
So talking all about “I”, is not being emotional? I dint know that.
I think Clash has given you my answers. Atleast I have a mind to accommodate people who haven’t had the fortunes as I have had. I have the brain to think that they too are humans. I haven’t boasted how I survived without reservations (and lady, I actually did! And I am not jobless!).
You call me emotional and immature! I have nothing more to tell you…yours words speak all! BTW how old are you?
“Woman must come of age by herself……She must find her true center alone(Anne Lindbergh)…this is my story..trying to find out who exactly am I?”
Oh Really? Now you know why I donot have answers for you.
You yourself dont know what you are, devoid of the feel for the land, its people and its true identity…Shame on you!
Ok guys / Gals,
Here is truce. As clash just said, we all were going on for eons. This is such a complex issue, that flames are bound to fly.
I think what irks me and Immigrant is your choice of words and attitude. You seems to belittle everyone those who do not agree with you. And questioning the motives and means of them. You even go deep down and question their intellect. Let me tell you all a thing. We all are part of one big family and ther eis bound to be some infightings. But we should never question the integrity of people by dragging our children, father and mother.
Second, If someone disagree with you, you can also disagree with them. But not by attacking them personally and viewing them as scum. From your comments (specially Dhanya) one gets a feel that he/she is really has done some heinous crime. U need to learn to respect critisism. As much as you believe that reservations are necessary, others have that much right ot believe it is not. If you think others must follow your line of thought, that’s frivolous.
So let’s put an end to this and forget and forgive. After all we all bump into each other in those blogs and I don’t want any bad blood between us.
I hope this doesn’t start another barrage of attack.
Shinu,
With all respect to your yearning for peace…I did do a heinous crime, to waste my time on a debate, where the other side was no only devoid of factual information but also of brains that could take the other point of view.
And as far as respecting the comments, I needn’t. When I find that my beliefs and my thought process about the society as a whole, is being questioned, why would I care to respect. I would respect someone, who came to me and said that minorities need the support from the government. Why would I want to support or even applaud for a cause which has nothing to do with the people who I care for?
Call it my prejudice, my lack of thoughts, facts, relaity, my illusion, but sorry I cannot help but be like this. If my words instigated the beliefs in you, then that is because you wourself was not of your ideologies and just got provoked by the opposite view!
If I happen to meet you in any other blog, I will keep away, not for the fear of opposition, but for the sole purpose of not wasting time again.
Bye. And Thanks!
oh dhnaya..u r such a sore loser..again trying personal attacks..like I mentioned..you are attacking me personally..
Since you attacked me this personally it is time that I give you the facts.
I don’t need to work here in Canada, because I have enough savings that let me migrate to Canada on ‘business migration’!!!I have made enough money to retire comfortably and raise three happy kids at the age of 35.
When you try to attack me personally the only question that goes in my brain is “Dhanya, How low will you sink? There is no way you can match up to me child. You aren’t my equal( i am older, more educated, than you!!!)..So stop wasting your efforts on personal attack.
Some of us, who have Indian blood can see and understand what exactly is going on in India, because we aren’t prejudiced or influenced by the political factors.
Reservation will not help to bring down the caste system, because you are still encouraging it. When I was an employer (in Malaysia), I always chose someone who didn’t get the education through the reservation system, because they didn’t earn it.. the same would happen in India eventually when people get qualified on reservation..
Others will think’you didn’t earn it on merit”
Couldnt go through all the comments/ conversations but had to stick my opinion in..
1.Oppression did exist in the past.
2.The platform is still NOT levelled at the moment. Less fortunate ppl Dont have same means/ opportunity as others.
3.Quotas is the least smartest way to fix the divide.
4.Government cannot rely on shortcuts. What we need is better primary and secondary institutions.
5.Whats the darling point of any reservation when in the end you dont have sufficient number of adequately staffed and funded primary/ secondary schools in the country?
6.By extending reservations, we are avoiding the issue of being able to provide basic Quality education.
7.Also by providing additional reservations, we have to accept that some qualified people will be left without Equal opportunities. So should we wait till this flares into an important issue?
Confession: I dont consider myself a patriotic person. Its the basis and reason quoted for extending the reservations that irks me.
I personally think many things (this issue included) are rooted with the population problem… that we simply have far too many mouths to feed than the economy can presently or even in a long while support.
I have resolved to leave the land so that my kids (if I can afford any) wont be a burden to this country that we presently call India, located in central asia which is but another continent on planet Earth, which is floating about in a milkyway that is at the far end of the universe 🙂
Just read all the conversations.
Lot of steam in here 🙂
Hope the joke in my blog doesnt go unnoticed.
Seems like things are very Politic in here. I am fascinated by economics.
In my quest for information & open mindedness:
Communist ideals seem to wish for the best but I havent seen any successful working model.
Give me a successful communist story. Please.
I greatly regard the socialist model. Eg: Sweden, Germany
(it worked for a long while atleast)
Seems a lot is going one here. 🙂
May I join too. Well, I support Unni.
And well, just appending a reply to a friend´s forwarded mail.
To all the great anti-reservation-activists (especially the majority of armchair anarchists among them),
Know what you are talking about before jumping into opinions. Alteast that is what is expected from the ‘so called cream of India’. This whole episode is more a humbug which is getting a disproportionate media attention. I will not support moves from whatever powers that be to water cannon striking students- whoever they be as long as they respect the democratic rights of other citizens and be bold enough to admit their politics.
If you are unaware of how reservations for OBC and mondal commission issue came up learn it first. Refer this to start with -> http://alternativeperspective.blogspot.com/2006/05/reservationsquotas-and-meaning-of.html
Now, when you talk about AIIMS students protesting against reservations naming them being against merit (while they themselves do not know what a merit is), will you care to read this piece of news
———————————————
Striking AIIMS docs live in a glass house
Akshaya Mukul
[ Tuesday, May 23, 2006 01:55:32 amTIMES NEWS NETWORK ]
NEW DELHI: The main grouse of AIIMS students – at the forefront of the stir against 27% reservation for OBCs – is that merit is being sacrificed at the altar of votebank politics. But they forget two things: 25% reservation that AIIMS graduates get in PG admission and the Supreme Court judgment of 2001 that declares the earlier system of 33% reservation for them bad in law.
In fact, the SC, while stating that 33% institutional reservation is “unconstitutional”, agreed with the findings of the Delhi High Court, which had earlier set aside the reservation.
The HC had found that “AIIMS students, who had secured as low as 14% or 19% or 22% in the (all-India) entrance examination got admission to PG courses while SC or ST candidates could not secure admission in their 15% or 7% quota in PG courses, in spite of having obtained marks far higher than the in-house candidates of the institute.” HC had analysed admission data over five years.
The apex court also agreed with the HC that the “figure of 33% reservation for in-house candidates was statistically so arrived at as to secure 100% reservation for AIIMS students. There were about 40 AIIMS candidates. The PG seats being 120, 33% thereof worked out to be 40.” That meant all 40 AIIMS graduates were assured of PG seats.
Merit here was clearly being sacrificed, the study showed. For instance, in the January 1996 session, an AIIMS student with 46.167% marks – lowest for an AIIMS student that year – got PG admission.
However, an SC student with the same grades was admitted but denied coveted course such as obstetrics and gynaecology. The SC student got shunted to community while AIIMS students easily won berths in prestigious disciplines.
Twelve AIIMS candidates were selected even though they got less marks than the SC candidate who secured 60.33% marks. Similarly, 16 AIIMS students got admission to PG courses even though they got less marks than another ST student who got 62.16%.
Basing itself on this study, SC said, “Institutional reservation is not supported by the Constitution or constitutional principles.” “A certain degree of preference for students of the same institution intended to prosecute further studies therein is permissible on grounds of convenience, suitability and familiarity with an educational environment,” it added.
Preferences, the court said, had to be “reasonable and not excessive…Minimum standards cannot be so diluted as to become practically non-existent.” In the similar vein, SC said, “It cannot be forgotten that the medical graduates of AIIMS are not ‘sons of soil’. They are drawn from all over the country.”
The court reasoned that these students had “no moorings in Delhi. They are neither backward nor weaker sections of society. Their achieving an all-India merit and entry in the premier institution of national importance should not bring in a brooding sense of complacence in them”.
Extending the damning logic, the court said in preserving quotas for its own students, “the zeal for preserving excellence is lost. The students lose craving for learning.”
——————————————-
By logic an IITian getting above 8 CGPA being eligible for direct PhD is also a reservation, isn’t it?
Then what about the NRI/DASA/Self-financing students?
The people who claim themselves to be ‘secular’ are in fact, showing a worst form of castism in many an instants. What proportion of people who end up in IIT’s/AIIMS come from rural India? Does it mean that rural students have no merit?
It is in kerala that max. percentage of students from rural areas get a chance to get into REC’s and other Govt. Enng and medical colleges. We already have OBC reservation here. Has it erroded quality? Instead, I believe that it has created a more congenial atmospher for social interaction.
Do you know that even in US universities consciously select students from diverse backgrounds especially for UG education. They welcome abroad students for the reason of a cultural interaction too (the sensible Uties). But in India without reservations only few students from rural India and socially backward sections make it to prestigious institutions. Remember not everyone can become a B. R Ambedkar (who was the highest intellectual modern India has ever seen), K. R. Narayanan or Kiran Bedi (yes, I hinted the women’s reservation too). Unless you give them a chance to come to a level ground, what merit are you talking about?
Apart from the political part, can you imagine a Kerala with the same feudal setup (as in cowbelt)? What has created this? Do you think educational access have had no role in this? How did this educational access came up?
Why is it that when AIIMS/IIT students protest against reservation, we have a huge media outburst and no signs when Medha Patkar pleads for justice to some voiceless tribals with a 100% peaceful hunger strike for weeks? I still remember that sober face bursting into tears when the apex court denies the basic right to live for many. Sure they are voiceless and invisible before the middle class amul babies who have never understood what is activism.
I am infuriated by this disproportionate and illegitimate media hype that they get to to such an extend that I drafted an article after a long time. I have more questions before these people who care to forward the anti-reservation struggle and believes it to be the noblest of all causes. Well, I think it is better to strike on the same note. Will write in detail soon.
I was proud about my state for having seen and heard about ‘Nambudiris’ who broke their ‘poonools’ and urged the community- nambuuthiri manushyanaaku, the nairs who went in front of protest for allowing ‘temple entry’ for the untouchables, similarly people from other communities, (like Sri Naryana Guru, Ayyankkali) and religions and now too sad to see the revivalism of castism and elitism in disguised forms. How many of these people have cared to think from the other end? How many of these protesters (in terms of percentage) have lived in a backward village, have close friends/comrades from socially and economically backward people? …. More later
regards,
Ayyappadas
🙂 🙂 🙂 can’t praise. u said it all!
counter reply to hyped news…
Dear Manoj
Reference to below message. At the outset, let me clarify that below is
just an idiotic news which was created by some stupid person. As you know
only media created this much gossip and signifance, how come then they are
not allowed to report this important news. The real news is that due to
this strike one lady died bcos of lack of medical care.
Suppose, if the news is correct then also no need to worry. There are
thousands of people dying each year in India bcos of starvation. Is
anybody concerned about that or sending any chain mails to voice, then why for
this case..???
It took almost one week for me to prepare this article. I crave your
indulgence and patience to read and understand this email. I am a
NRI , at any cost this reservation will not benefit me or my family but as
an Indian we should raise our concern for the needy.
I am not an admirer of former Prime Minister V.P.Singh because I feel
he was responsible for reviving caste feelings in India. He cunningly played
vote bank politics but acted as if he was the saviour of the underprivileged. But
I fully agree with what he said about Indian media; that Indian media
today has absolutely no idea about what real India is. This is exactly what
award winning director Girish Kasaravally also told; that Indian media has
become not just urban centric but metro centric! That is why this over
emphasis on Sensex, GDP, FII, FDI etc.
Actually how many percent of Indians are really concerned about the
Sensex? Only those who have the money to invest in the stock market. But
television channels and newspapers talk about it as if it was the heart beat of
India.The truth is, if you want to hear the real heart beat of India, you
have to go elsewhere.
It may sound clichéd, but majority of Indians do not think about Sensex,
they do not discuss Sensex over a cup of tea or breakfast in the morning.
The fact is, a lot of Indians do not even have proper breakfast every morning.
They only think about from where the next meal is going to come, and Sensex
or FII or FDI.
Let me also narrate what I saw. I had actually seen many villages of Kerala
and they were not the typical Indian villages. I saw the real Indian village
for the first time in Tamil Nadu. Recently on a visit to a small village in Chengalpattu
district, I saw how different the lives of ‘real’ India is, and how deprived they are.
A family of six was sitting leisurely under the shade of a huge tree on the side of the
state highway. An elderly lady in the group was ill. As there was no hospital in the village,
they were waiting for a bus to come so that they could take her to the nearest town. As she was
suffering from just a mild fever, they could afford to wait for the bus. But
what if she were in a serious condition? They said then, they would rush to
the town in their bullock cart. 28 year old Selva in the group did not go
to school after 4th standard because there was no high school in his
village but his cousin, a girl, cycles to the nearby village and studies in
Plus 1. That was only because the state government provided her with a
bicycle and gave her text books and note books free.
If this is the pathetic condition of a village in Tamil Nadu, a state that
is said to be far more developed than many other northern states in India,
what will be the condition of those villages?
I shudder to think. The villagers also told me that their occupation was agriculture but
they depended solely on the rains. “Look at out fields.They are all dry. Only when it starts
raining, we can till. We have no other source of water except rains.”
Government spending much money to raise doctors, engineers but how many of
them will serve the nation. After geting the degree, they are looking for a
chance in US,CANADA,UK, Australia etc. How many of them willing to serve in
those villages. But if reservation being given to those, atleast there will
be small clinic in remote villages.
Let us look at the merit of the doctors working in the most prestigious
hospitals of the country. If the Indian doctors and medical specialists are
so meritorious than why is that most of the VVIPs run away to foreign
countries at the simplest of illnesses. Even the former Prime Minister Atal
Bihari Vajpayee, an ardent supporter of Swadeshi had to call an NRI
orthopedic surgeon for his knee operation. Further, is it not logical to
evaluate the merit of the professionals passing out from the various private
universities, engineering, medical and management colleges where a seat can
be bought for a few lakh rupees? There is no reservation in sports even then
a nation of over a billion has not been able to produce a single individual gold medalist
in Olympics. Similarly is it really a case of meritocracy that all the
progenies of film stars are given a chance to act and sing in the film
industry even though they do not have any experience? Are these cases of
merit or pedigree reservation? The answer is self-evident, as most of them
have been one-film wonders. But the fact remains that most of them could
reach there just because of their pedigree.
I EMPHASIZE THAT THIS RESERVATION IS REALLY REQUIRED FOR THE
NEEDY (from this caste )AND I AM 100% CONFIDENT THAT THIS GOVERNMENT
WILL IMPLEMENT THAT WHATEVER THE OBSTACLE IS. I REQUEST YOU TO
THINK LOGICALLY, RATIONALLY AND COME TO A CONCLUSION.
Ashwin
—–Original Message—–
From: Manoj [mailto:manoj@uge.ae]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 4:32 PM
To: ‘Brijesh’; ‘Priscilla’; ‘R.Kudva’; ‘Rajni’; ‘SajuKoshy’; ‘Sharila’;
‘Sita’; ‘Unni’
Subject: worst news
Hi Friends,
Sorry for giving you all a very bad news, it may be one of the worst news
after the Independence.
Subhash Srivastav an AIIMS student died because of hunger strike protesting
against reservation.
Media is not allowed to cover it. Please pass this to all and help not to
let down his sacrifice.
mathew…i agree reservation may be wrong in terms of logical explanations…but u have to think practically while looking for solutions… also i understand u name as mathew…u shud ask you ancestor, why did they change the religion…or u have to dig and find out who ur ancestors were and why did they change their religion..also i have few christian friends…who like to discriminate..their christian breathens….like syrian christian, marthomite, pentocose, latino church….. i believe christian were religion of the west…but now i find our kerala breathens have more sects than the westerns…is it what u learnt from the west…divide amongs ourselves…
find answers to all above points..these will provide u solutions…then u will also support reservations…becos latino christians are beiing diecriminated by the syrian christians…i never knew these is what christ believed in…
ashwin
Dear shinu Mathew
Reference to below message. At the outset, let me clarify that below is
just an idiotic news which was created by some stupid person. As you know
only media created this much gossip and signifance, how come then they are
not allowed to report this important news. The real news is that due to
this strike one lady died bcos of lack of medical care.
Suppose, if the news is correct then also no need to worry. There are
thousands of people dying each year in India bcos of starvation. Is
anybody concerned about that or sending any chain mails to voice, then why for
this case..???
It took almost one week for me to prepare this article. I crave your
indulgence and patience to read and understand this email. I am a
NRI , at any cost this reservation will not benefit me or my family but as
an Indian we should raise our concern for the needy.
I am not an admirer of former Prime Minister V.P.Singh because I feel
he was responsible for reviving caste feelings in India. He cunningly played
vote bank politics but acted as if he was the saviour of the underprivileged. But
I fully agree with what he said about Indian media; that Indian media
today has absolutely no idea about what real India is. This is exactly what
award winning director Girish Kasaravally also told; that Indian media has
become not just urban centric but metro centric! That is why this over
emphasis on Sensex, GDP, FII, FDI etc.
Actually how many percent of Indians are really concerned about the
Sensex? Only those who have the money to invest in the stock market. But
television channels and newspapers talk about it as if it was the heart beat of
India.The truth is, if you want to hear the real heart beat of India, you
have to go elsewhere.
It may sound clichéd, but majority of Indians do not think about Sensex,
they do not discuss Sensex over a cup of tea or breakfast in the morning.
The fact is, a lot of Indians do not even have proper breakfast every morning.
They only think about from where the next meal is going to come, and Sensex
or FII or FDI.
Let me also narrate what I saw. I had actually seen many villages of Kerala
and they were not the typical Indian villages. I saw the real Indian village
for the first time in Tamil Nadu. Recently on a visit to a small village in Chengalpattu
district, I saw how different the lives of ‘real’ India is, and how deprived they are.
A family of six was sitting leisurely under the shade of a huge tree on the side of the
state highway. An elderly lady in the group was ill. As there was no hospital in the village,
they were waiting for a bus to come so that they could take her to the nearest town. As she was
suffering from just a mild fever, they could afford to wait for the bus. But
what if she were in a serious condition? They said then, they would rush to
the town in their bullock cart. 28 year old Selva in the group did not go
to school after 4th standard because there was no high school in his
village but his cousin, a girl, cycles to the nearby village and studies in
Plus 1. That was only because the state government provided her with a
bicycle and gave her text books and note books free.
If this is the pathetic condition of a village in Tamil Nadu, a state that
is said to be far more developed than many other northern states in India,
what will be the condition of those villages?
I shudder to think. The villagers also told me that their occupation was agriculture but
they depended solely on the rains. “Look at out fields.They are all dry. Only when it starts
raining, we can till. We have no other source of water except rains.”
Government spending much money to raise doctors, engineers but how many of
them will serve the nation. After geting the degree, they are looking for a
chance in US,CANADA,UK, Australia etc. How many of them willing to serve in
those villages. But if reservation being given to those, atleast there will
be small clinic in remote villages.
Let us look at the merit of the doctors working in the most prestigious
hospitals of the country. If the Indian doctors and medical specialists are
so meritorious than why is that most of the VVIPs run away to foreign
countries at the simplest of illnesses. Even the former Prime Minister Atal
Bihari Vajpayee, an ardent supporter of Swadeshi had to call an NRI
orthopedic surgeon for his knee operation. Further, is it not logical to
evaluate the merit of the professionals passing out from the various private
universities, engineering, medical and management colleges where a seat can
be bought for a few lakh rupees? There is no reservation in sports even then
a nation of over a billion has not been able to produce a single individual gold medalist
in Olympics. Similarly is it really a case of meritocracy that all the
progenies of film stars are given a chance to act and sing in the film
industry even though they do not have any experience? Are these cases of
merit or pedigree reservation? The answer is self-evident, as most of them
have been one-film wonders. But the fact remains that most of them could
reach there just because of their pedigree.
I EMPHASIZE THAT THIS RESERVATION IS REALLY REQUIRED FOR THE
NEEDY (from this caste )AND I AM 100% CONFIDENT THAT THIS GOVERNMENT
WILL IMPLEMENT THAT WHATEVER THE OBSTACLE IS. I REQUEST YOU TO
THINK LOGICALLY, RATIONALLY AND COME TO A CONCLUSION.
Heyy Mister
Dont even dare to identify yourself horribleselves with upper castes. As far as we Hindus are concerned you are an outcaste who got lucky with arrival of whites…so throw around your intellectualism from there..okayyy
I just read through some statistics in the Outlook(May 29 ’05) magazine, it says: As a result of decades of huge percentage of reservation for SC/ST/BC in Tamil Nadu, it has come to a situation where the members of these same communities have started outperfgorming the forward comunities, cornering a majority of the open competition(OC) seats. In the 2005 Medical entrance, out of a total of 1445 seats in 12 medical colleges 430 seats were available in open competition. As many as 321BC, 57MBC & 14SC students have made it in the OC list. Only 38 from the forward communities qualified. Does this mean that the upholders of merit are talking rubbish?!
Also it says: Some of the first beneficiaries of reservation in education were Brahmins. In Madras Presidency College, the British administration noted that most natives(at that time mostly upper castes Brahmins) failed to clear the final examination in the first & second divisions with 40% marks. To ensure that more candidates passed, a third division (at 33%) was introduced in mid 19th century. And a vast majority of Brits had serious doubts about (their performance) inducting these so called natives in to their system. This could have been one reason we were kept out from those ‘high’ responsible posts in the ‘Raj’ for a long time. Well the point is ..at a time it was Brahmin Vs Brit..now it is BC Vs Brahmin..history repeats..!!and this Brahmin case applies to all those so called uppercastes[including those Brahmo-Christians of kerala who got lucky(& fair skinned) with the coming of white hordes] and do humbly remind them where & how they started off.. so cool it guys the nation wouldn’t come to a stop!!! and u guys will still have u your say if you are good enough and can take the competition. If not run for your lives…(probably to the middle east where it is easy to make a good living with mediocre intelligence..)or else all these guys are going to scare uuu!!ha ha!!
Sorry i’m a late entrant….
I do not understand what has our mathayi to do with reservation…good even mathayi kuttys started speakin about such complicated subjects….And good that you agree that the lower casts were opressed once…and Christianity spread in india esp kerala coz of this opression many people got converted just to cover their breast…if ur great grandpa didn’t get conv. we would have seen u cryin for reservation….and readin books give knowledge…experiencing it gives intelect…so u better stay off from intelectual talks if u don’t get any other intelectual topic to discuss over a Beer talk about Da Vinci Code ( If u r sure that u will be able to get Heaven even after the talk…and make sure u r NON BIASED INTELECTUAL INDIVIDUAL)
Praise the lord that Uncle got a chance to got to malasya to save his soul sorry uncle all the so called lower caste ppl can’t leave the mother land coz THIS IS OUR COUNTRY and we better live here as masters than live else where as Slaves
Thanks to Claasshh, Ayyappadas and all others …..
Rise up and revolt the world will be yours one day….
forward castes will be against resvn and backward castes will be for it. u know which side i’m on. n’ i’m happy to be. my two cents:
don’t live in the past. oppression in the last yrs have no telling effects today. change is permanent. i’m for affirmative action, but resvn is not justified.
The weak might inherit the earth, but they’ll have to get the ball from me. call these incoherent words by upper middle class? but then its incoherent only to the lower class.
@ All of who descended here to make their views :
@ Dhyanam : Woh.. Uncle nahi he… Aunti he :)-
@xeres: Ur logo speaks it all… But u don’t sound good!
@ Ashwin: Thanks a lot, Wishing you a great life ahead, coz yours seemed to different, not stereotypical 🙂
@ Anony : Seems like all those brits who came down never helped you out! We got lots of English medium schools; they might teach you the sentence structure! Get a life! Run!
@ Aslan: Opinions differ. But to be different is difficult. It is easy to be on the other side 🙂 – Cheers buddy!!
Ohh..sorry i misunderstood….Sorry Aunty…
what it issssssss??? for a moment i thought, i am in no land! phewwwwwwwwww!
thanks clash: your style of writing is great…i do not write well.
we all should meet up.
There are a few confused people in this world who do not know what they are or what they want or what they would do with things they see around. These total morons tend to lean towards the left. That is where they should be..and they better be there..at the abode of hypocrites. And sincerely i hope someday you will have the heart (or brains) to ditch your cowardice and stand up against these mean & unscrupulous minorities (rather than playing the neutral nice guy).
N.B.:I have more respect for a ‘Shinu’ than for you!! Atleast he speaks his mind and he doesn’t lean left (i guess). And u anony u keep writing..
Its easy on the other side? You tell me if its easy to score in the 99th percentile and be in EEE only to see someone who languished in the bottom half of test takers enjoying a CS seat when he doesn’t even know how to spell “Computer Science Engineering”.
Above-mentioned, all else being equal.. as is true in almost all cases of reserved seat occupants, who are not in the least bit financially disadvantaged. My prob is that the seats do NOT benefit the ones who REALLY deserve it. The son of a toilet cleaner will grow up a toilet cleaner. Caste-wise is a ludicrous way of implementing economic reservation. And a guy who thinks reservation in IIMs is justified, is nothing short of a buffoon. Have 50% resvn for primary education, but not for UG and DEFLY not for PG. The creamy layer can be dealt with if resvn is denied to people whose parents have benefited already from it.
If leaning left means that you stand to be a moron, yes! Of course Xerxes! Never condemn things you can never even dream of being!
Speaking up the mind is a wonderful thing, but speaking your mid off to things which you cannot grasp the essence of, is foolishness. And to think it is chivalrous is madness!!!
@ Aslan: “The son of a toilet cleaner will grow up a toilet cleaner. Caste-wise is a ludicrous way of implementing economic reservation” – The point, I am trying to make is something different, southern states always had a reservation, that mounts up to 50%. They are the better administered states in India too. Now, Cow belt States Cant afford something like this, almost all the bureaucrats and officials come from upper echelons of the society in those states.
Now portraying this struggle as the struggle for equality by a bunch of loony minds, who propel their sentiments watching a movie or hearing a song is utterly despicable. Now, the argument Castes have been an age old system and is never being practiced now is utterly delusional. Dalits do get tortured in many parts of India.
Now, loosing a seat to someone not that great might hurt your sentiments, but a struggle to equalize the opportunities never equals the society, so that struggle cannot be christened as the “Struggle for equality”.
The present youth have no idea about, what our history was and they never can understand the largesse of this issue, just because they are never aware of what went in our societies in the name of caste. If they know, they won’t accept it, because now it’s not the time to think of anyone else… it’s just me… and me… and more me…
@xerxesess , whatever : You cannot think something other than, what you have seen or what you have heard of. I hope you also belong to that Sunday church bound good lamb. Can’t help it. I don’t think I need your valuable comments here. You can very well be in Shinu’s Blog.
don’t use words like largesse and eye-glistened without knowing what they mean and how to use them. be simple, write simple.
largesse of the issue – u might have struck a chord without knowing it. yeah sure, giving seats undeservedly sure is largesse..
yeah right, the good administration of southern states is because of SC/STs who studied in IITs and IIMs. i know about what happened in the past. and where LCs are insulted today, its mainly because they benefit from privileges. caste-based surnames, caste-based matrimonials n’ forms with a space for caste should be banned. me, me, more me.. eh? so its being totally selfless to support resvns to get in places easily when one is too lazy to work hard, right? yeah if such folks are bein insulted, then may it carry on. long live oppression!! down with the commie bastards!!
Clash;
Oh god, this is still going on..
I don’t understand why Ashwin dragged christianity & it’s different sects into this conversation. Hinduism have more castes & subcastes and that’s why we were fighting about reservations..
I wish all those who come here refrain from dragging religionwhich is not related directly to this into this already hot debate.
@Aslan : Expected!! Thank you for all those corrections!
Simple: Yeah, I am. May be way ahead than you!!
Write simple : Thats my freedom. May be its not up yer expectations. Cant help it.
Eye glistened: Yeah People are!
“undeservedly” : Deservedly they are oppressed so undeservedly loosing some seats is not a big deal.
aslan } largesse also means magnanimity! didn’t YOU know that?
Clash } was this issue essay correction or simplification of language? hmm…synonym finding???
Some interesting links that speaks about “merit”
http://alternativeperspective.blogspot.com/2006/06/manufacturing-merit_114924170976662388.html
http://alternativeperspective.blogspot.com/2006/05/merit-of-reservations.html
And I suggest a debate is worthwhile if lesser rhetorics or personal prejudices are showered.
Well I too have written about the same @ http://semischmaltz-chimeras.blogspot.com/2006/05/reservation-issue-when-pandoras-box-is.html
magnanimity did not fit the context as i saw it. if u don’t write simple, it warps and convolutes the meaning makin ur views difficult to understand. that is all. no more comments here. ppl are too rigid to be open-minded. i admit i am, and so are you.
Dear Friends,
i was refered to this site by one of my friends.
i am here to ask few basic questions to understand the doubts i have and like me, many have.
before that, let me tell you. this is the first time i am posting a “comment” on blog.. never knew blog’s some new thing come up, it seems..
secondly, i may not sound so very good in english. its for the simplest reeason, to insult english as much as i can.
coming to the point,
please tell me you both guys,
1. what you mean by reservation?
2. why do you support/ dont support?
3. whats that you are doing for what ever you are supporting.
i want to know it..
please try to put it in simplest form possible by you. and as less explanations as possible
thank you
Devaki Dasan
@Mr.Devaki Dasa : After reading so much, over here, fi you dint understand what is reservation and why people support/oppose it..That seems to be a difficult task!
Father’s Baby?
10/2/2006 8:25:54 AM SYNONYMOUS
“Managements who are clamouring for minority status in the High court and Supreme court must remember that ultimately they have to operate in this land” said Mr. M.A. Baby, the honourable Education Minister of Kerala. I do not think any other minister in the history of Kerala had shown such ‘vocal guts’ to warn the minority managements that have kept successive governments on their kneels. But quite surprisingly, all the bravo is over and complete surrender is very much in the air. What must have happened? Have the majority been fooled by the clever community once again? It is worth speculating on the possibilities.
Catholic Church is the cleverest and most cunning institution that we can ever find. And Communists are the best when it comes to hypocrisy and deception. That is why it is such a deadly combination to have Catholic Communists in our midst. It is easily the ‘social RDX’ that can devastate any country, more so if it is an old civilisation over populated with lazy youth intoxicated with ‘Ahimsa’ and ‘Secularism’. It is no wonder that India has become the natural birth place for people like Ninan Koshy, Biju Mathew, John Dayal etc. Their affiliations, background and training makes them experts in the arts of doublespeak, political hypocrisy and social deception, all for manoeuvring public policy in favour of their own community with little or no resistance. It is almost clear that M.A.Baby has become the most visible example of this phenomenon in the current scenario.
Given the fact that one of the main architects of the current Self-Financing Education Bill is Prof. Ninan Koshy, who is Vatican trained, the leftist ‘drama’ is taking a predictable course. Baby will continue to cry for implementation of the bill in the Assembly and channels, but finally will yield to the wishes of Father Powathil. The ‘cross communists’ have so cleverly trapped oldies like VS, that it will be difficult for anyone to go against the wishes of Mar Powathil and Kundukulam. After the series of dramatic court cases and big talk, LDF will eventually yield to the condition that all institutions started by individuals or organisations belonging to Christian or Muslim community will have to be considered as minority institutions. And that is exactly what the Fathers wanted.
At the very end, you may wonder what the big drama has achieved. If it was not done this way, at least some of the leaders and organisations in the majority community would have objected by now. And none of the ‘majority’ leftists like Prof. R.V.G. Menon could have been roped in to defend the bill. All such ‘foolish’ people were made to believe that this bill will establish a novel way of identifying minority institutions and Kerala will become a model for the country again. But the powers-that-be at the Centre know the implications of this for Christian and Muslim institutions on all-India level. CBCI will never give approval to AICC and Politburo to implement such ‘anti-minority’ legislations. What is the use of Antonys, Tom Vadakkans (has anyone heard of him in Kerala?), Oommen Chandys, Kuriens, Joses and Josephs if they cannot prevent such legislations? The baby has cried and all of us thought that it is in pain. We fools who gathered around it in sympathy will know the truth only later- that this type of Baby will cry only for his Father.
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[…] yer Kilt…. I was happy when a previous post of mine which was written in favour of reservation recorded the highest number of hits and comments. But […]
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very interesting, but I don’t agree with you
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WHEN IT COMES TO RESERVATIONS PMK, DMK AND AIADMK PREFER HINDI OVER TAMIL
Pro reservationationists ironically favour Muslims who only speak Hindi at home or Nayudus and Reddys who speak only Telugu at home. At the same time they treat Tamil-speaking Brahmins and Chettiars as foreign invaders by excluding them . They also claim to fight for the Tamil cause….by dividing Tamil society!!? PMK, DMK, ADMK etc reject creamy layer, support the cruel 2-tumbler system of Southern Tamil Nadu and now demand extended reservation. PMK leader will go Delhi, Hyderabad and Bombay to promote reservation rather than setting up Tamil learning centers in those places. This shows that Tamil Nadu policitians don’t mind loosing their self respect and prefer to worship their Hindi masters than to work for an integrated Tamil society. Incidently the PMK health minister has made Hindi compulsory for medicine, the the DMK surface transport minister has made Hindi compulsory on national roads even in Tamil Nadu.
hiii guys………………….i read all ur comments …..reservation is required only 4 the needy…..many of the sc’s & st’s are misusing it………….i know that u guys r also aware of the fact…….but 4 the sake of the debate u put forward unnecessary statements…………..
dhanya please realise that india is a secular state……..christian missionaries convert the people who r ready to follow the path of jesus christ…they never compel anyone………….before talking against christians , understand what is christianity………..i also have a request……never criticise any religions…..one’s belief is his own..never question it……………………clash i know that my language is bad…………………i don’t want u 2 write any comments on that.
Varnasram, caste or whatever, merit always outs.
There were many Brahmins and Kshatriyas when Vyasa, the fisher; Valmiki, the Vanvasi, Ekalavya etc lived. Do we know about any of them? No. Yet we know about these three guys.
We remember Ayyankali. And we do not know who the biggest Nair of his place had been.
KR Narayanan did not have anything or anyone to prop him up in Kerala.
Why go on? Merit outs- Reservation or not!.
I forgot to say. Religion is nonsense; caste is stupid.
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